METTLE Monthly Newsletter Volume 5 Issue 6


Volume 5 Issue 6

June 2010

Hippolite Musings 


In June, I managed to:

  • Wish farewell to several staff here at Telecom;
  • Watch a locally made file “The China Cup”;
  • Attend a mediation between parties in a dispute;
  • Participate in the Wellington Home Education Network annual Science Fair;
  • Take minutes at Northern Racquets Squash Club committee meeting;
  • Take minutes at Grenada Village Residents Association committee meeting;
  • Fully engage in Align Church leaders meeting;
  • Convince my manager to shell out for a team lunch;
  • Witness my niece’s baptism;
  • Protest the Emissions Trading Scheme (with 100 farmers);
  • Walkover site of land in dispute; and
  • Be blessed by a couple of my wife’s most excellent dinner parties.


World Outreach



  • BANGLADESH. David Elliott is leading a team of Bible College students on various outreaches in Bangladesh at this time and would appreciate prayer for the team’s well being, for favour with locals as they share, for a rich anointing of the Holy Spirit to be on their ministry times and that they will be a great blessing and encouragement to all they come in contact with.
  • Shuken & Puspa, leaders of Generation Ministries in Bangladesh, ask for prayer for their annual “Teen Time” conference starting July 01. They and the whole Gen. Ministries team are very excited about this event and ask us to pray with them that hundreds of young people will come to find and follow Jesus. 
  • Vijaya Chowdhuri would also appreciate prayer as she continues to come to terms with the loss of her precious Biswanath (last February) and the challenges of taking up his directorship role of Christian Discipleship Centre in Dhaka. 
  • INDONESIA. Continue to pray for God’s provision for the purchase of the campus land on Mount Tawangmangu in Central Java. Sam & Carol Soukotta are very grateful to those who are praying and who have contributed to the fund to buy the land on which the Tawangmangu Bible College premises are located. To date around half of USD330K has been received / pledged.  The deadline for full payment is January 2011. Please keep praying that the necessary funds will be forthcoming and this marvellous facility will continue to be used to train up Godly men & women for ministry service in Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim populated nation. 
  • KEY POSITION. Please keep praying that the right person will be found soon for the position of WO Operations Director.  We believe the Holy Spirit is already stirring someone’s heart in preparation for this call!   Please direct any interest to Luke Chong in the first instance.  The role of an Operations Director is a very key & important position in WOI, especially so with the organization steadily growing each year in both field personnel and ministries.  Please be praying with us for the right person.
  • STH AFRICA.  Many international & local Christian groups and organizations are in Sth Africa for the football World Cup targeting fans with the hope of sharing the Gospel.  Pray for a mighty harvest of souls for the Kingdom of God. Pray too for Sth Africa that this world cup event will be a means for the Holy Spirit to do something very special in this great land.  
  • IVORY COAST.  Janvier & Claudine Yokoinele write: “Our new school bus in now operational in our mission school here in Abidjan, Ivory Coast.  Please pray that we may raise the remaining Euros 6000 to complete payment for the bus and original set-up cost for the school.  We are ministering to many children who would not have had a chance to hear the gospel or see it modelled.”
  • BURKINA FASO. Joseph Dayamba writes: “We will gather more than 600 to 700 children in our camps this year. Please pray for the children and the teenagers as we are preparing them to reach out to the LRP in their areas, pray too for their physical and spiritual protection, that God opens their eyes to find the people of peace who the Holy Spirit has prepared their hearts, and pray that my ministry team will trust the Lord for all the challenges before us.
  • CONGO.  Gavin Porter writes: “I will be leaving on 1 July to Democratic Republic of Congo to teach God’s Vision God’s Mission to about 100 pastors in Lubumbashi. There are 5 people travelling with me. They will attend the classes as well as help with teaching and preaching in local congregations.  We are travelling the full distance by public transport via Zimbabwe and Zambia. We return again to Pretoria by 13 July.   Please pray for sufficient finances for each of the team members, for all the arrangements for accommodation and travelling, for a safe journey and God’s hand to be upon us, for the anointing of the Holy Spirit as we minister, for the pastors and leaders to be receptive to the Spirit and Word of God, and that God would confirm His word with signs and wonders as we minister in churches.”
  • NTH INDIA.  WO church planting teams in Manipur report that tension is increasing in the province. Some of our WO team have received death threats.  Please pray that law & order will be maintained, that Godly wisdom will prevail & for protection on those involved in sharing the Gospel.   
  • GERMANY.  Stefan Ross, friend of WO and Kairos National Coordinator for Germany, suffered a minor heart attack last week.  He is now recuperating but will need to go to a Rehabilitations Hospital for 3 weeks.  Please pray with us for Stefan’s full recovery and pray for his wife Helga that both will know the peace & presence of the Holy Spirit.

Koinonia House News



  • Fifth Century Paintings Of Apostles Found In Catacombs
    June 23, 2010
    Using new laser technology, archaeologists and art restorers have discovered what they believe are the oldest paintings of the faces of Jesus Christ’s apostles. The images in a branch of the catacombs of St Tecla near St Paul’s Basilica, just outside the walls of ancient Rome, were painted at the end of the 4th century or the start of the 5th century. The paintings have the same characteristics as later images, such as St Paul’s rugged, wrinkled and elongated forehead and balding head and pointy beard, indicating they may have been the ones which set the standard.
    – AP
  • Israel Will Not Boycott Turkish Goods
    June 23, 2010
    Israel’s biggest supermarket chains – Super-Sol, Blue Square and Rami Levy – will not boycott Turkish goods, they advised the Ministry of Industry, Trade and Labor. Earlier this week ministry director general Sharon Kedmi had asked the retailers to continue to sell Turkish products despite the mounting tension between Jerusalem and Ankara.
    – Haaretz
  • The Bible In Every Language Expected By 2025
    June 22, 2010
    A Christian endeavor of almost 2,000 years could be substantially completed by 2025. Protestant translators expect to have the Bible — or at least some of it — written in every one of the world’s 6,909 spoken languages. "We’re in the greatest period of acceleration in 20 centuries of Bible translation," said Morrison resident Paul Edwards, who heads up Wycliffe Bible Translators’ $1 billion Last Languages Campaign. Portable computers and satellites get the credit for speeding things up by about 125 years.
    – The Denver Post
  • Bush Criticizes North Korea’s Kim
    June 22, 2010
    Former US President George W Bush on Tuesday accused North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il of wasting his country’s precious resources on personal luxuries and nuclear weapons programs. North Koreans have been suffering since the Korean War ended, Bush told a prayer meeting to mark the 60th anniversary of the war’s outbreak. "While South Korea prospers, the people of North Korea have suffered profoundly," he said, adding communism had resulted in "dire poverty, mass starvation and brutal suppression".
    – AFP
  • Israel’s Bee-Keepers Used The Best Bees
    June 07, 2010
    The Bible didn’t dub it "a land flowing with milk and honey" for nothing. Not only are the oldest known beehives in the world in what is now Israel, but bee-keepers of the time selected the best bees for the job.
    – NewScientist

Why I Am A Climate Realist

Hello again Climate Realists,

Well, it’s been a busy two weeks!

First of all, may we say a very grateful thanks for all the messages of support we have received over the last little while.

It’s great to know there are so many people who  are on our side!
Some of you have indicated that you feel quite alone in your views- but please be encouraged, there are people all over the country who feel the same way.

The protest march in Wellington is over- here’s the report:

Firstly, a great big thank you to all of you who made the effort to be there- people from Auckland and even further north, a contingent from the Waikato,  friends from Dannevirke, Pahiatua, Taranaki, Hawkes Bay, Taihape, Blenheim…. and those were just the ones we spoke to!

Special thanks to Bob McCoskrie (Family First), Don Nicolson (Federated Farmers),  Vapi Kupenga (Maori Affairs-Kiwi Party), Robin Grieve (Pastural Farming Climate Research) and John Boscawen (Act MP) who spoke about the effects of the ETS on various different sectors of society. Thanks for making the effort!
Over the four days of the Fieldays we collected signatures for a large card which was presented to Rodney Hide and John Boscawen at the Tuesday protest. Heather Roy and David Garrett were also there in support.

Why is it that only Act MP’s feel able to meet us?

The card simply stated: "Please scrap the ETS" and had the picture often seen in parks when encouraging people to place their litter in bins- a person dropping a sheet of paper into a wire rubbish bin. We painted ‘ETS’ on the paper for good measure. Inside the card were well over 2,000 signatures collected over the four days of the Fieldays.

We found it generally fairly easy to collect signatures- about 50% of people willingly signed. 47-48% had no idea what the ETS is about. A very small 2-3% were definitely opposed to us and the stand we are taking.

Grateful thanks for those on the network who helped collect signatures; also those who circulated around the grounds distributing flyers about the protest.

Thanks are also due to the Act Party for allowing us to share their Fieldays booth at very short notice.

The protest started with at least 110 people (we counted!) and it was very heartening to discover that as we marched, some of the people on the streets joined in as they realised what we were on about. There were even more already waiting at Parliament.
The numbers weren’t as great as we had hoped, but we are certainly grateful to all those who made a sterling effort, and we applaud Brian Anselmi of Piopio who was the main organiser.
Thanks to Renton McLachlan who filmed the speeches and put them on Youtube- the links are below:

Why I Am A Creationist


Synthetic life—the death-knell of the Bible?

Many headlines have proclaimed that genome researcher Craig Venter made artificial life. We saw a number of atheopaths crowing that this disproves God. But the DNA software sequence was planned after analyzing an already existing microbe, the components joined with intricate chemistry largely based on proteins from living organisms, and the product was read with already existing cell machinery. Furthermore, even if a genuinely synthetic life form were made in the future, it would require intelligence, planning and foresight, not time and chance, so it would support the biblical creation model.

See Was life really created in a test tube? And does it disprove biblical creation? by Jonathan Sarfati (Ph.D., chemistry), as well as our Questions and Answers page on Origin of Life.

It’s conclusive. Neandertals are human

About ten years ago, the human genome was sequenced and published. It cost about 3 billion dollars and took a decade to finish. Genetics studies have advanced considerably since then, and we are now able to sequence DNA thousands of times faster for much less money. This has ushered in an age of ancient DNA studies that was unimaginable just a few short years ago. Ancient DNA is highly degraded and in old bones it is invariably broken into millions of short pieces. We can now sequence this DNA and on the forefront of this new wave was the recent publication of the Neandertal genome.

When we say “Neandertal”, what do most think? Primitive cave man? A half man/half ape creature living in a cave and walking all stooped over? Evidence against such ideas has been mounting for decades, but the Neandertal genome has finally put them to rest, for the Neandertal was human. And we don’t mean a little bit human, but fully human. And, according to the data, they were related to present-day people living in Eurasia! Find out more in our recent article published on neandertals—just like us by Dr Rob Carter.

The most precise clocks in the universe

It’s exciting to see creation scientists at the forefront of technological advances. For example, Dr Raymond Damadian pioneered MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scanning technology that has revolutionized diagnostic medicine and helped save many lives.

Now university professor and CMI speaker, Dr John Hartnett’s work in developing atomic clocks (like the ones used aboard the International Space Station) has been recognized in the secular journals—even winning awards. Dr Hartnett is also author and co-author of the books Starlight, Time and the New Physics and Dismantling the Big Bang available from our store along with several of his DVDs.
For more on this mind-blowing technology and what it means read It’s about time.

Why aren’t there more people?

According evolutionists homo sapiens appeared anywhere from a million years to tens of thousands of years ago. If that’s the case, even using conservative growth rates there should be trillions of people around today. Population numbers have long been a problem for evolutionists. Read this short article Where have all the people gone?

A ‘key’ resource article for all creationists

Dr Don Batten’s article 101 evidences for a young age of the earth and the universe has become somewhat of a staple, that is, a key resource for creationists everywhere when defending the biblical creation dates. We have seen it referenced in quite a few other creationist articles.

And yes, this concise article lists over 101 easy-to-understand evidences that you can use to defend the faith. Moreover, just like all the articles on you can print it out and copy it as many times as you want. There could be few better articles with which to do such a thing.

How to… 

Engage an Atheist

I offer this dialogue, by way of example.  It took place via Twitter, an on-line chat service.  I am JamesHip.  “GodlessAtheist” was his chosen nom-de-plume.  At the end of this dialogue, I learned several things.  Enjoy!

Time From Comment
28/06/2010 13:56 JamesHip Can any atheist please explain how the creation of artificial life in a controlled environment by intelligent design disproves the Bible?
28/06/2010 14:02 GodlessAtheist Hi James. It doesn’t. The bible is flawed historically, mathematically, scientifically and biblically.
28/06/2010 14:07 GodlessAtheist Happy to answer any question you have for an atheist (fellow kiwi) if they are long go to
28/06/2010 14:13 JamesHip "The Bible is flawed… biblically"? That’s a neat trick. Only an illogically training atheist could think that up.
28/06/2010 14:15 GodlessAtheist What I mean by that is that the bible contradicts itself. This is a sign that either it is not a holy book or was mis…
28/06/2010 14:17 JamesHip So, just as your pithy statement required unpacking, so too does any apparent contradiction in the Bible.
28/06/2010 14:20 GodlessAtheist What do you mean by unpacking? Is that another word for spin? or something else?
28/06/2010 15:12 GodlessAtheist Most Christians say the resurrection is the most important story of the bible. Would you agree with that?
28/06/2010 22:53 JamesHip I would tend to argue that literal creation is at least as important as the resurrection, but I’ll go with you on that one.
28/06/2010 22:59 JamesHip BTW thanks for being honest and admitting that artificial life does not negate the Bible.
29/06/2010 5:51 GodlessAtheist According to the bible there are many different stories of what happened in the discovery of the Jesus’s tomb. Why?
29/06/2010 5:52 GodlessAtheist Not a problem.
29/06/2010 7:32 JamesHip Different eyewitness accounts. If they had exactly matched, you would have concluded collusion. QED reliable testimony.
29/06/2010 9:33 GodlessAtheist James you know better than to say that 4 stories that don’t match up proves they are reliable.
29/06/2010 11:10 JamesHip One person saw two angels. A second person saw only one. It’s a reasonable inference there was at least one.
29/06/2010 11:22 GodlessAtheist First things first. Does having 3-4 contradicting stories mean the evidence is reliable?
29/06/2010 11:51 JamesHip That’s precisely why we have trial by jury: to ascertain reliability. Contradictory or complementary? We are stalemate.
29/06/2010 11:58 GodlessAtheist You said "QED" because they vary they were reliable. I wanted to give you the chance to withdraw that.
29/06/2010 12:04 GodlessAtheist Here are a list of some of the contradictions about the resurrection
29/06/2010 12:24 JamesHip I said "QED" because it sounds brainier than "ergo". Mea culpa.
29/06/2010 12:31 JamesHip If that list had reasonable answers, would that matter to you? I suspect not cos you have Materialistic Faith. just sayin’
29/06/2010 13:52 GodlessAtheist It would not convince me.What I am trying to understand is why you are not worried about these or the hundreds of others?
30/06/2010 6:46 JamesHip I am convinced there is a reasonable explanation for each and every one of them, that’s why. It’s called Faith, admittedly.
30/06/2010 6:47 JamesHip But not a blind faith in random processes, like yours. Mine is a reasonable faith, I contend.
30/06/2010 10:49 GodlessAtheist If you have a reasonable explanation then faith is unnecessary. Faith is only required when evidence is insufficient
30/06/2010 10:50 GodlessAtheist Do you agree that if evidence is sufficient then faith is not required?
30/06/2010 15:41 JamesHip evidence is sufficient = "reached a conclusion" = "trusted the source". See the problem? Requires faith.
30/06/2010 16:43 GodlessAtheist Is it better to say "I don’t know" or "A magic man did it"?
30/06/2010 16:43 GodlessAtheist Scientists publish there findings &others try to show their mistakes. Creationist are afraid to publish.
30/06/2010 17:43 JamesHip Creationists publish and are ostracised ref: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"
30/06/2010 17:44 JamesHip There are two types of science: empirical vs. forensic. Empirical = testable, repeatable, observable. Forensic is not.
30/06/2010 17:48 GodlessAtheist There are times when we have to say we don’t know. It doesn’t mean that the god hypothesis is correct.
30/06/2010 17:49 JamesHip Origins debate is forensic. Darwin was spinning a yarn, which doesn’t hold up without huge leaps of faith.
30/06/2010 17:51 GodlessAtheist Example?
30/06/2010 17:52 JamesHip I would say, we are both logical, reasonable guys, who differ only in acceptance of worldview, not flaws in logic.
30/06/2010 17:56 JamesHip Example of Darwinian leap of faith? How did the first living (self-replicating) cell come into existence?
30/06/2010 18:59 GodlessAtheist Which book of Darwin have you read. He only ever talked about evolution not abiogenesis.
30/06/2010 20:55 JamesHip Surely you’re not trying to be disingenuous, after all the complements I’ve given your intelligence?
30/06/2010 21:24 GodlessAtheist No. Darwin’s work was about how animals evolved. He never made claims about the origins of life.

At this point, I chose to disengage, because I realised several points:

  • I’m not as clever as I’d like to believe.  He called me on my “QED” misquote.
  • He was being disingenuous, and not really being intellectually honest.  After all, the title of Darwin’s book is “On the Origins of Species…”
  • He had already confirmed my original question: that artificial life in the lab doesn’t disprove the Bible.
  • He didn’t like what I had to say about his belief in Atheism is no less a religious faith than mine.
  • I found this exchange worth-while.  I have to believe that of the combination of his followers and mine, that somebody was edified by my stand.
  • That regardless of whether I win or lose a battle, at least I’m engaged!

Great Scientists…

…Who Believed the Bible

Louis Pasteur (1822-1895)

Louis Pasteur was the father of bacteriology. He established the germ theory of disease. His persistent objections to the theory of spontaneous generation and to Darwinism made him unpopular with the scientific establishment of his day. He was a Christian with extremely strong religious convictions.

Friday Fax


UN Office of Human Rights Continues Drum Beat for New Human Right to Maternal Health

By Samantha Singson

GENEVA, June 24th (C-FAM)  The Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights (OHCHR) has presented a new report to the United Nations (UN) Human Rights Council on "Preventable Maternal Mortality and Morbidity and Human Rights" that calls for a new “right” to maternal health.

The pro-abortion Center for Reproductive Rights (CRR) heralded the new report and boasted of having a "leading role" in getting maternal mortality put on the human rights agenda. CRR organized three panels on implanting a “human rights-based approach” to reducing maternal mortality at the recent Women Deliver 2 conference.    

US Administration Launches All-Out International Homosexual “Rights” Offensive

By Terrence McKeegan, J.D.

WASHINGTON DC, June 24th (C-FAM)  United States (US) Secretary of State Hillary Clinton addressed a reception at the State Department, proclaiming that “human rights are gay rights and gay rights are human rights, once and for all.”  The reception celebrated “Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month,” as was officially proclaimed by President Barack Obama for the month of June, and follows a recent incident at the United Nations (UN) where U.S. representatives made loud demands for immediate action on accrediting a homosexual “rights” group to the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC).  

Train a Child


In June,

  • Tane is learning to be a great big brother, and not just to his own siblings.  At many WHEN events, he is looked up to (literally and figuratively).  At swimming lessons, he is learning to play water polo.  He has surpassed Fiona’s height.  Now that his bedroom is downstairs, I have to be careful not to exclude him from family matters.  I have to make a conscious effort to remember (and remind him) that he matters to us.

  • Hamish participated in the Wellington Home Education Network annual Science Fair.  He created a presentation around his plasma lamp.  He researched (Googled) what a plasma lamp was, how it worked and demoed putting an ordinary (unplugged) light bulb in close proximity to the plasma lamp.  His little friends were delighted to see the unplugged lamp glowing.  Hamish was able to explain how the slight radiation around the plasma lamp excites the gasses inside the other bulb.

  • Aimée continues to excel at reading, handwriting and art (all the fine-motor skills).  Having to force her to go to her own bed to sleep (had a sleep-over in Hamish’s room recently), but she talks too much for him.  He likes his sleep.

    Why I Am Pro-Israel


    Dear Friend of Jerusalem,

    Here are the latest headlines from the One Jerusalem Blog:



    1. A thief broke into the local police station and stole all the toilets and urinals, leaving no clues. A spokesperson was quoted as saying, "We have absolutely nothing to go on."
    2. Evidence has been found that William Tell and his family were avid bowlers. Unfortunately, all the Swiss league records were destroyed in a fire… and so we’ll never know for whom the Tells bowled.
    3. A man rushed into a busy doctor’s office and shouted, "Doctor! I think I’m shrinking!" The doctor calmly responded, "Now, settle down. You’ll just have to be a little patient."
    4. A marine biologist developed a race of genetically engineered dolphins that could live forever if they were fed a steady diet of seagulls. One day, his supply of the birds ran out so he had to go out and trap some more. On the way back, he spied two lions asleep on the road. Afraid to wake them, he gingerly stepped over them. Immediately, he was arrested and charged with transporting gulls across sedate lions for immortal porpoises.
    5. Back in the 1800’s the Tate’s Watch Company of Massachusetts wanted to produce other products, and since they already made the cases for watches, they used them to produce compasses. The new compasses were so bad that people often ended up in Canada or Mexico rather than California. This, of course, is the origin of the expression: "He who has a Tate’s is lost!"
    6. King Ozymandias of Assyria was running low on cash after years of war with the Hittites. His last great possession was the Star of the Euphrates, the most valuable diamond in the ancient world. Desperate, he went to Croesus, the pawnbroker, to ask for a loan. Croesus said, "I’ll give you 100,000 dinars for it." "But I paid a million dinars for it," the King protested. "Don’t you know who I am? I am the king!" Croesus replied, "When you wish to pawn a Star, makes no difference who you are."
    7. An Indian chief was feeling very sick, so he summoned the medicine man. After a brief examination, the medicine man took out a long, thin strip of elk rawhide and gave it to the chief, telling him to bite off, chew, and swallow one inch of the leather every day. After a month, the medicine man returned to see how the chief was feeling. The chief shrugged and said, "The thong is ended, but the malady lingers on."
    8. A famous Viking explorer returned home from a voyage and found his name missing from the town register. His wife insisted on complaining to the local civic official who apologised profusely saying, "I must have taken Leif off my census."
    9. There were three Indian squaws. One slept on a deer skin, one slept on an elk skin, and the third slept on a hippopotamus skin. All three became pregnant. The first two each had a baby boy. The one who slept on the hippopotamus skin had twin boys. This just goes to prove that… the squaw of the hippopotamus is equal to the sons of the squaws of the other two hides.
    10. A sceptical anthropologist was cataloguing South American folk remedies with the assistance of a tribal Brujo who indicated that the leaves of a particular fern were a sure cure for any case of constipation. When the anthropologist expressed his doubts, the Brujo looked him in the eye and said, "Let me tell you, with fronds like these, you don’t need enemas."

    Events Schedule


    In this section, I highlight dates, times and venues of events either I am presenting at, or of interest to METTLE.  I’m available for bookings.

    Date Event Venue Speaker
    3-Jul-10 Intermediate Student Concert Raroa Intermediate School Tane (Sax)
    7-Jul-10 Align Church Prayer Meeting Hippolite Residence All
    8-10 Jul Northern Squash Tournament Newlands College N/A
    17-Jul-10 Ella and Duncan’s Engagement party Studio 6, Wellington Elim Church N/A
    19-Jul-10 The Blind Side charity movie screening The Light House Cinema, Petone N/A
    21-23 Jul Turn Back the Clock Show Newtown Community Centre Kids4Drama
    24-Jul-10 Beginners Student Concert Raroa Intermediate School Hamish (Guitar)
    5-Aug-10 WHEN AGM WHEN Library All

    Book Review



    Too busy

    Bible Reading 

    You can look up for yourselves at:

    End Notes

    • METTLE is an acronym for Men’s Evangelical Team Together for Learning Experiences. We are primarily Christian businessmen from Wellington, who meet occasionally in the CBD to encourage each other in our daily walk with Jesus. This Monthly Collaborative Blog (MCB) is our primary means of communication.  If you know of anyone who may benefit from this MCB, you are welcome to forward them along. Similarly, if your circumstances are such that membership in this distribution list is no longer relevant, then hit reply and type UNSUBSCRIBE to have it removed.
    • If you choose to respond to any item raised in this MCB, please indicate clearly which items you wish to remain Private, as any correspondence may be considered Public and could be published.
    • If this newsletter has been of benefit to you, why not drop a line and say so.  Or better yet, visit the TVORNZ website to read past issues and add a comment!
    • Published by The Voice of Reason, New Zealand, copyright © 2006-2010


    One thought on “METTLE Monthly Newsletter Volume 5 Issue 6”

    1. That was a reasonable discussion with the "Athiest" congratulations for holding back on personal attack which never gets you anywhere.ETS – I filled up my car last night, did petrol go up today ?


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