Making Sense of Making Sense

James says:

Had a fun/disturbing time yesterday.

quite unsettling

don’t know if I was doing the right thing

Russell says:

did you unsettle them ?

James @ Work says:

I think it would be fair to say that I may have…

hard to tell, actually.

Russell says:


Creation/Evolution will always be a very emotive issue

James says:

It was for the guy that wanted to get in my face.

Russell says:

He thought his facts were more credible than your facts ?

James says:

He disputed that there was any general revelation relevant to everyone always; merely personal revelations.

Russell says:

wow, Must belong to a personal cult

James says:


afterwards was good though; I gave a ride into town to a guy who was a Philosophy major: he may have disagreed with me, but could separate the discussion from the personal feelings.

Russell says:

That is always important, sometimes difficult

It is a bit like that in the Kiwi culture – you believe what you like, fine, just don’t let it affect me

James says:

I think that in a room of 50+, I may have been the only creationist.

The Dr. of Informational Statistical something or other, who was the main speaker…

I thought I was going to hear a discussion of creation vs. evolution…

I wasn’t sure which side they were going to fall…

but discovered it was an outreach to evolutionary scientists…

trying to ally their fears that they have nothing to fear from Christianity…

Russell says:

you were in the right place

James says:

That you could be a Christian and an evolutionist too…

I was not going to let him get away with that lie.

Russell says:

You can be a lot of things and still be a christian, salvation is simple, the rest is hard

James says:

I asked three questions:

1. If a straight-forward rendering of Genesis is wrong, then which parts of the Bible are trustworthy and true?

2. If you’re talking ape-men, then you’re talking millions of years of death before Adam’s sin. Therefore why do I need Jesus to save me unless there is a literal hell as a consequence of a literal fall from a literal garden?

3. Given that his discussion was on the topic of "how do we know what we know" and he discussed the limitations of science, what role does Revelation play in your philosophy?

Russell says:

That would threaten them

James says:

His answers to all three were completely inadequate:

1. My colleage next month will discuss what Genesis was actually trying to convey = cop out.

2. The first ape-men, once they had acquired self-awareness, new they needed forgiveness = logically inconsistent because how can an animal killing be morally wrong?

3. He twisted my question about General Revelation (e.g. the Bible and Jesus) into personal revelation (e.g. does my understanding line up with scientific facts).

Russell says:

Sounds like a load of codswallop, who were they ?

James says:

A lay group of Christians at Karori Baptist Church invited some scientists who call themselves Christians to speak in an open forum.

Apparently next month, will be a biologist.

Speaking of biology…

there was a question from the floor..

from a little old lady…

but rather than looking sweet like June H. or Noeleen B…

her expression was sour and bitter and twisted…

She said she was a biologist.  Her question was "given the completion of the mapping of the human genome, have the Intelligent Design people changed any of their views?"

Russell says:

good question

James says:

Obviously the guy from the front couldn’t answer that question; so I stuck up my hand and responded on behalf of ID-ers…

Russell says:


James says:

I said "We love the Human Genome project…

The reason why is this…

There is a program called SETI where they are searching for a message because information proves an intelligent source…

Therefore the Human DNA proves a designer!

Russell says:


And they all agreed ?

James says:

Nobody agreed with me.

Doesn’t matter.

Me and God make a majority.

Russell working hard says:




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